[goosey]

On the 15-05-2007 I saw these eggs on a million bell flower - which is strange in its self, finding eggs on vulnerable petals. The night before I saw a moth on the very same plant so expected they were moth eggs. I asked for an ID and was told they are probably stink bug eggs?


19-05-2007, they started to change colour.



24-05-2007 the eggs had gone very dark and by the state of the petal I didn't expect it to survive long enough for the eggs to hatch.





Later that evening though to my surprise, they had hatched and the tiny silver larvae were crawling all over the place! Thank goodness I went and checked or I would have totally missed everything!




The next day there was no sign that the eggs or larvae had ever been there and the petal had shrivelled. I saw no sign of stink bugs in the garden at all after that so I still have my doubt to the identity.

[Pudding4brains]

Great series Goosey!

Certainly no Stink Bug as their nymphs look a lot like tiny Stink Bugs already (not larva as in beetles or moth etc.). Moth seems very plausible, maybe even the one you saw. In theory they could also be wasps, can't quite make out the number of "belly legs" (?), but I think wasps don't generally produce quite that many eggs at once...

Thanks for sharing the pics
Arp

[goosey]

Thanks Arp for your thought. I wish I had checked the flower after I saw the moth, but I had no reason to expect that it had been laying eggs. Anyway it was dark at the time I was mothing with torch. I would love to think that after all the work and planning in attracting moths they were happy enough to lay eggs in the garden.
I didn't realise wasps could be a possibility - laying eggs like that. It is so different than the Cynips quercusfolii wasps (Cynipidae family)which lay their eggs on oak leaves which become galls. (Which happens to be te only thing about wasps)

[paul m]

Could be moth larvae but sawfly of some kind is a possibility.

[goosey]

I didn't think they were sawfly eggs purely because of the shape. I don't now if different types of sawfly produce different shape eggs but the sawfly eggs I have noted in the garden are and smooth, the same sort of shape as ladybird eggs but white, where these where more ridged spherical and white .

Here is a picture of some sawfly eggs. http://www.wildabouttheworld.com/gallery/data//504/thumbs/2007-04-28_Sawfly_Larvae_2.jpg

[Pudding4brains]

Originally Posted by goosey

I didn't realise wasps could be a possibility - laying eggs like that.

Well, the "wasps" I was referring to would be the Sawflies already mentioned (which are not flies at all of course) and I think you're right about the egg shape - I had only looked at the hatchlings

[ozwildlife]

From what I've read, one way to tell the difference between sawfly larvae and moth larvae is to count the legs. Sawfly larvae have 9 or more pairs of legs - 3 pairs of true legs at the front and 6 or more pairs of stumpy legs (called prolegs) at the back. Butterfly and moth caterpillars never have more than eight pairs of legs (3 pairs of true legs plus up to five pairs of prolegs).

Hard to tell how many legs the larvae in the photo have - but there don't seem to be enough legs to be sawflies.

[goosey]

Originally Posted by ozwildlife

From what I've read, one way to tell the difference between sawfly larvae and moth larvae is to count the legs. Sawfly larvae have 9 or more pairs of legs - 3 pairs of true legs at the front and 6 or more pairs of stumpy legs (called prolegs) at the back. Butterfly and moth caterpillars never have more than eight pairs of legs (3 pairs of true legs plus up to five pairs of prolegs).

Hard to tell how many legs the larvae in the photo have - but there don't seem to be enough legs to be sawflies.

That is a useful bit of information, something new I have learned today .
Thanks.

The photo's aren't bril', the larvae and eggs were so tiny, and I rely on my trusty point and shoot camera with a macro facility.

[paul m]

Well, I still say sawflies for two reasons: (a) they have well-developed eyes and (b) they are rearing up which is a common defensive reaction with sawflies.

On the other hand I know very little about moths so could be wrong. Yes, the eggs do look quite like bug eggs but usually these are laid tightly clustered together, not loosely as here. e.g. http://www.utextension.utk.edu/field...tinkB_eggs.JPG

Incidentally, while trying to find information, I came up with this interesting looking site.:

Glossary of terms

[paul m]

Originally Posted by paul m

Well, I still say sawflies for two reasons: (a) they have well-developed eyes and (b) they are rearing up which is a common defensive reaction with sawflies.

This is the pine sawfly showing the rearing action and the many legs!

[Pudding4brains]

Originally Posted by paul m

This is the pine sawfly showing the rearing action and the many legs!

Yeah, those are good fun Amazing how they all suddenly make the same move ... synchronized ... I should have a little video of that, but would need to convert it to some web-format (Are videos accepted here?).

However, looking at goosey's hatchlings again, I still feel they have more of the typical poses for Geometridae (Geometer Moths?), standing on the hind legs and "reaching around" with the fore legs to land and pull in the hind legs with the typical curved back...

Can't quite make out the number of legs though, unless maybe goosey would have another, closer shot of one or more hatchlings?

Cheers!
Arp

[goosey]

As the discussion goes on - and very interesting too! I thought I would post a sequence of sawfly images.

1. 16-04-2007 Egg laying.
We had loads of saw fly laying eggs last year on the undersides of willow leaves. The male took a very protective stance while the female was laying the eggs and if I got too close dive bombed me. The whole process took a couple of hours.



2. 23-04-2007 Shows the eggs hatching, even here their little tails shoot up.




3. 24-04-2007 These hatchlings are one day old, and have already started to change colour and are eating their way through the first leaf.




4. 09-05-2007 This sawfly larva has grown to 2.5cm.



I am not sure which type of sawfly they actually are.

[paul m]

I was going to write something to the effect that sawflies are like some other herbivores - name the plant and you've named the pest. However, I see that, as in so many things, willows are the exception:
Yield Models for Energy Coppice of Poplar and Willow - Sawfly and moth defoliators

Yours could be of several species

[paul m]

I was going to write something to the effect that sawflies are like many other herbivores - name the plant and you've named the pest. However, I see that, as in so many things, willows are the exception:
Yield Models for Energy Coppice of Poplar and Willow - Sawfly and moth defoliators

Yours could be of several species