[paul m]

Some people may be surprised that I've been on this forum for quite a while and never mentioned ladybirds ... ... that's all coming to an end now!

They're a very interesting family of beetles and quite easy to study. Gilles San Martin has opened a Flickr gallery Collection: Ladybirds illustrating many species, their life cycles, biology, ecology and how to find them!
Well worth a look or for reference ....

[goosey]

Oh, what a brilliant reference! The photo's are amazing, I love the detail of Anatis ocellata spines. The hatchling images are so clear. I spent days in the summer waiting for ladybird eggs to hatch and watched as the yellow eggs changed colour and the final hatching of what looked like tiny spiders - even on the macro setting of the camera. Seeing them in Gilles images is remarkable.
The only disaapointment was seeing those which were on pins - I hope they were already dead. You see them and other insects like that in old Victorian collections - does it still go on?
Otherwise I am so impressed - great find!

[paul m]

Well, collection of specimens does go on in judicious amounts. For several reasons: some insects are impossible to identify for sure unless they're under a microscope and/or dissected. Similarly, if a new species or some such is found then it needs deep examination and description (to form a reference collection so that other people can learn to recognise it).

Fortunately, 99.99% of ladybirds can be identified without killing - and, generally, with the advances of digital photography it is much easier to record insects and provide evidence for verification.

For interest, the common means of killing beetles nowadays is to drop them into the freezer - this is, after all, how most of them die naturally. (I've been listening to the weather forecasts of snow blowing from Siberia!)

PS: most of the pinned specimens are rare species and undoubtedly were collected some time ago: I note, for instance, the 13-spot, Hippodamia tredecimpunctata which is not common in Europe - it has been seen twice in the UK in the last hundred years!

Originally Posted by goosey

Oh, what a brilliant reference! The photo's are amazing, I love the detail of Anatis ocellata spines. The hatchling images are so clear. I spent days in the summer waiting for ladybird eggs to hatch and watched as the yellow eggs changed colour and the final hatching of what looked like tiny spiders - even on the macro setting of the camera. Seeing them in Gilles images is remarkable.
The only disaapointment was seeing those which were on pins - I hope they were already dead. You see them and other insects like that in old Victorian collections - does it still go on?
Otherwise I am so impressed - great find!

[goosey]

Talking of ladybirds, last winter there were quite a few 7 spots over-wintering in ecinacea seedheads and under fallen leaves that I had left in a sheltered pile. I saw the first active on 3rd February, two of them. On the whole there were less ladybirds during the spring and summer. 22 spots must have been the most numerous.
This winter I haven't seen any over wintering in the garden, I hope it won't be another bad year.

[paul m]

Yes, they tend to wake up when the sun shines on them and then go back to slepp again. Can be very dangerous for them if they move away from their shelters and are overtaken by a sudden frost.

Mind, Majerus thinks that the orange ladybird can predict what the winter weather will be like .....

Evolution - April 1999: Peppered moths...NOT.

Originally Posted by goosey

Talking of ladybirds, last winter there were quite a few 7 spots over-wintering in ecinacea seedheads and under fallen leaves that I had left in a sheltered pile. I saw the first active on 3rd February, two of them. On the whole there were less ladybirds during the spring and summer. 22 spots must have been the most numerous.
This winter I haven't seen any over wintering in the garden, I hope it won't be another bad year.

[Guy F]

Some very good, and interesting shots there. Are they all British species or are there some European ladybirds in there as well? There are some there which I don't think I'd recognise as a Ladybird if I saw them, Cynegetis impunctata is one of them.

This year as I had the new camera I started paying more attention to Ladybirds (and most other insects) in the garden and I saw quite a few new species. Pine, 14-spot and Heather (id'd on WAB by you Paul) were all new for me. Also the moth trap attracted a Cream Spot and an Orange Ladybird, it's interesting to see what other insects are attracted to the light, assuming that's why they were there
Guy

[paul m]

No, the immaculate ladybird, Cynegetis impunctata has not yet been found in UK although there's no obvious reason that it shouldn't be: it's found around Calais! People have sometimes thought they've found it but it always turns out to be the spotless form of the 24-spot, Subcoccinella vigintiquattuorpunctata.

There are some other ladybirds which are quite common in NW Europe but have never made it across the Channel/Manche.

Originally Posted by Guy F

Some very good, and interesting shots there. Are they all British species or are there some European ladybirds in there as well? There are some there which I don't think I'd recognise as a Ladybird if I saw them, Cynegetis impunctata is one of them.

This year as I had the new camera I started paying more attention to Ladybirds (and most other insects) in the garden and I saw quite a few new species. Pine, 14-spot and Heather (id'd on WAB by you Paul) were all new for me. Also the moth trap attracted a Cream Spot and an Orange Ladybird, it's interesting to see what other insects are attracted to the light, assuming that's why they were there
Guy

[paul m]

I'll be loading a few ladybird pictures - they're one of the most photogenic of insect families!
By and large these will all be European. I'd love to see pictures of ladybirds from elsewhere in the world.
This was Europe's largest, the pine ladybird Anatis ocellata:

[H Dogg]

Originally Posted by paul m

I'll be loading a few ladybird pictures - they're one of the most photogenic of insect families!
By and large these will all be European. I'd love to see pictures of ladybirds from elsewhere in the world.
This was Europe's largest, the pine ladybird Anatis ocellata:

I know the latin name is right for your picture but Anatis ocellata is usually referred to as the eyed ladybird. Exochomus quadripustulatus is usually referred to as the pine ladybird, Although both are commonly found on pine tree's.

[paul m]

You are absolutely right Obviously my mind was on the tree! I shall amend that immediately. Thanks! Ah, don't need to - I got it right on the picture!

Actually, the pine ladybird Exochomus quadripustulatus, as was, is seldom seen on pines in my experience!

Originally Posted by H Dogg

I know the latin name is right for your picture but Anatis ocellata is usually referred to as the eyed ladybird. Exochomus quadripustulatus is usually referred to as the pine ladybird, Although both are commonly found on pine tree's.

[H Dogg]

Originally Posted by paul m

Actually, the pine ladybird Exochomus quadripustulatus, as was, is seldom seen on pines in my experience!

I Agree i see this species on a wide range of plants usually stinging nettles. I suppose that is another downfall of common names they can be very misleading. Although there does seem to be a very healthy population of A.Ocellata in my local patch, these are a species normally associated with pine's but i normally find them on other plants.

[Pudding4brains]

Hi Paul,

Okay, you opened the door

As an excuse for testing the "attachment" options with (javascript switched off for starters) ... just today I was browsing some old sets of rather badly unorganized ladybird images and found these two. I think they are the same animal (but not 100% sure), about 4 days apart and I'm a little bit annoyed by the lacking colouration on the top of the 4th abdomen segment.

I know Ada.bip. has one of the most variable larvae, so I'm thinking this is probably just one of those, but maybe you have another option for it? I'm afraid the logic in that particular set of images is so far gone that I can't find the fitting puppae/bug to go with it (if it survived) - had a couple of hectic weeks that time.

So, Ada.bip. - you agree??

Cheers!
Arp

P.S. Ah, that was not the intended image handling - oh well.

[paul m]

I would think so although I'm never too happy separating 2-spot from 10-spot (Adalia decempunctata). The early instars (left) especially ...
Looking forward to more pics ...

Originally Posted by Pudding4brains

As an excuse for testing the "attachment" options with (javascript switched off for starters) ... just today I was browsing some old sets of rather badly unorganized ladybird images and found these two. I think they are the same animal (but not 100% sure), about 4 days apart and I'm a little bit annoyed by the lacking colouration on the top of the 4th abdomen segment.

I know Ada.bip. has one of the most variable larvae, so I'm thinking this is probably just one of those, but maybe you have another option for it? I'm afraid the logic in that particular set of images is so far gone that I can't find the fitting puppae/bug to go with it (if it survived) - had a couple of hectic weeks that time.

So, Ada.bip. - you agree??

Cheers!
Arp

P.S. Ah, that was not the intended image handling - oh well.

[Pudding4brains]

Hi Paul,

Glad you agree. I think it's my only/first 2-spot larva with no bright brushes on the back

Originally Posted by paul m

I would think so although I'm never too happy separating 2-spot from 10-spot (Adalia decempunctata). The early instars (left) especially ...

Well yes, for I1 and most I2 that'll be quite hard, for I3 and I4 I have this "working thesis" that seems to suffice mostly (attached - was to small for gallery and attachment won't show linked in IMG-tags, sorry).

Edit: Ah, now I get a non-scripted link, so better to include it directly:

Very bad diagram showing main difference between larvae of 2-spot and 10-spot ladybirds (arrows) I use for ID. On 10-spot the indicated brushes would be white/light gray on 2-spot these would be white/gray with a black or dark gray center. The other (orange/white/gray) brushes drawn are quite variable of course (more so for 2-spot than 10-spot).

You think that works, or have you found many larvae that would prove it wrong?

Cheers!
Arp

[goosey]

I have a photo of a Calvia decemguttata from last year, I thought I would post to go with the discussion between Paul and Arp.

[Pudding4brains]

Hi goosey,

Not much "discussion" (about Cal.dec.), but certainly a nice picture. Because of the transparency I would be almost tempted to think Hal.sed., but it clearly isn't - must be a really freshly hatched one me thinks. Nice!

[goosey]

[quote=Pudding4brains;2914]Hi goosey,

Not much "discussion" (about [i]Cal.dec.[/iQUOTE]

Yep! sorry you are right , I was thinking about the Calvia decemguttata larvae you had posted in the gallery and only saw the word decemguttata in the above posts.

[Pudding4brains]

Well, it's still a general Ladybird thread so your Calvia is more than welcome (to me certainly). Btw, I encountered what I believe to be the same animal on the WAB-archive last night - am I right in assuming they're two images of the same beast and that the shots were taken in NL? I think Paul mentioned they're not (yet) listed for the UK.

I uploaded an image yesterday where one is sitting next to the somewhat similar 16-spotted Halyzia. For this year I hope to find both of these species together with a 14-spotted Calvia and maybe even the similar variety of the 10-spot and get them all in one shot - but maybe I'm aiming too high

Cheers!
Arp

[goosey]

Originally Posted by Pudding4brains

Btw, I encountered what I believe to be the same animal on the WAB-archive last night - am I right in assuming they're two images of the same beast and that the shots were taken in NL? I think Paul mentioned they're not (yet) listed for the UK.

I uploaded an image yesterday where one is sitting next to the somewhat similar 16-spotted Halyzia. For this year I hope to find both of these species together with a 14-spotted Calvia and maybe even the similar variety of the 10-spot and get them all in one shot - but maybe I'm aiming too high

Yes - it's the same ladybird! Actually it was my first dealing with Paul and I frightened the life out of him as he didn't realise at first it was taken in Holland and thought they had infiltrated Britain like the harlequins .
I felt awful, luckily he forgave me

It would be a great comparison to be able to get all three in one shot!

[paul m]

Originally Posted by Pudding4brains

Very bad diagram showing main difference between larvae of 2-spot and 10-spot ladybirds (arrows) I use for ID. On 10-spot the indicated brushes would be white/light gray on 2-spot these would be white/gray with a black or dark gray center. The other (orange/white/gray) brushes drawn are quite variable of course (more so for 2-spot than 10-spot).

You think that works, or have you found many larvae that would prove it wrong?

Cheers!
Arp

To be honest I've done very little detailed work on larvae - when out counting I just put them down as Adalia! However, with the aid of your diagram I'll have a more detailed look this year, thanks.

My key (Majerus & Kearns) differentiates them on the basis of white/pale yellow central mark Ab4 inside Ab4i (inner) on 10-spot and yellow-orange/orange/orange red for 2-spot.

[Pudding4brains]

Hi Paul, thanks for the interesting reply! Of course, I only have one year's worth of "experience" and hardly no larva-literature at all. If I winn the lottery the first thing I do is order the old Hodek (the newer one doesn't seem to list the larvae anymore?). So all I (believe to) "know" comes from limited experience (fieldwork and breeding) and looking around on the web.

But there is/was not much ladybird larva stuff to be found on the web. I think I've personally updated "the web" with two or three larva species that had no images yet last spring and was pleasantly surprised to find some of these now also in the