Help needed.

reninfrance · #1 (**permalink**) 19-06-2009, 06:28 PM

I watched a swallowtail laying eggs singly on a fennel plant in my garden in May and have been trying to make a record of their development. They have now headed into the vegetation to pupate (only one left).

Does anyone know the most likely habitat - plant - place on plant where I should start looking?

goosey · #2 (**permalink**) 19-06-2009, 09:05 PM

I have no idea where the larvae will go or their prefered plant sorry. But if it's not too late and the larva is still there could you put it in a pot to pupate with plenty of air holes? I have done this with several moth pupae though I haven't had a 100% success rate.

paul m · #3 (**permalink**) 20-06-2009, 01:31 PM

I don't have any specific knowledge of where they will pupate but generally pupae are most commonly found wrapped up in some unexposed part of the plant; on the stem just above ground level; in soil, just below the surface. Gently poke around!
PS: welcome to WatW!

reninfrance · #4 (**permalink**) 20-06-2009, 05:40 PM

Thank you both for your help,

There is just one left at the moment. It is 4cms long and still eating. It is on another fennel nearby so I think it was laid later than the others.
I would like to try letting it pupate in captivity but will need guidance.
What size container, where should I keep it etc.
I will investigate the base and soil area round the plant and others near by.
thanks again
ren

reninfrance · #5 (**permalink**) 20-06-2009, 05:47 PM

goosey · #6 (**permalink**) 20-06-2009, 06:38 PM

I found this link when I was thinking about rearing my own caterpillars to save them from the birds and never got round to using it. Jaqueline Burrel was going to give it a try with some Geometridae, I don't know how she is getting on.
Here this should help with what you need to do and how to go about it.

How to Keep a Caterpillar - Provide the Right Housing for Your Caterpillar

paul m · #7 (**permalink**) 20-06-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reninfrance

.............I would like to try letting it pupate in captivity but will need guidance.
What size container, where should I keep it etc.
..................

The others may have more knowledgeable advice. For myself, I would get a glass jar (half kg or thereabouts) put some soil or potting compost in the bottom (2cms - not dry but not soaking wet) and then a few stems of your fennel.
While the caterpillar keeps eating then keep giving it fresh foliage at least once a day.
Then just keep a look out - if it starts to pupate on the plant then you need do nothing other than keep the container out of direct sunlight and hot (or cold) temperatures until something happens .... if it pupates in the "soil" then more or less 'ditto' but add a few drops or a light mist of water every now and then so that the soil and the pupa don't entirely desiccate.
If you get far enough for an emergence then you'll need to seek further advice - I've never been very successful with butterflies/moths at this stage! I'm sure you'll get good advice here but if not can let you know of lepidopterists' sites ..... Bonne chance!

reninfrance · #8 (**permalink**) 20-06-2009, 08:19 PM

caterpillar rehoused!!

-in a large plastic container, soil, fennel, a stick and a cheesecloth cover.
I don't think it will pupate yet as the others reached 5cms before disappearing mostly during the night.

-will go on a hunt for the others tomorrow and if I find one I will put this back. I don't want to risk harming it if I don't have to.

will keep you posted.

thanks
ren

tcvarlh · #9 (**permalink**) 21-06-2009, 02:04 PM

Hi I found this to view it might help :Old World Swallowtail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

reninfrance · #10 (**permalink**) 21-06-2009, 07:13 PM

Thanks tcvarlh - I've found it very useful.
I must show it to caterpillar 7 who has escaped once today. It put it's osmeretum out at me when I rescued him from the wall- the smell was pineappley but not too offensive. I put some fresh fennel in and now it is munching again.
Seriously though, looking at those pictures I wonder if I should put a fairly thick stick in there.
ren

reninfrance · #11 (**permalink**) 23-06-2009, 09:32 PM

update--
I think caterpillar 7 got the message.
This morning

reninfrance · #12 (**permalink**) 23-06-2009, 09:33 PM

this evening--

goosey · #13 (**permalink**) 23-06-2009, 09:44 PM

Excellent! Thanks for keeping us up to date

, now its the waiting game.
It's funny how butterfly cocoons are so different than moths!

reninfrance · #14 (**permalink**) 23-06-2009, 10:36 PM

I really am a beginner to this. I did not know they are different?
Have you a picture of a moth cocoon in the gallery?
The caterpillars have absolutely fascinated us (my husband too) as we have never see a cocoon before. We were fooled completely by the timeframe as we have checked and photographed roughly 4 hourly seeing only small changes. We went out at about 4 this afternoon to watch the storks as it is haymaking at the moment in the marais and when we came back at 8pm it was done!

tcvarlh · #15 (**permalink**) 27-06-2009, 12:40 PM

I spent some months near Freistadt-Rust in Burgenland in Austria and the Storks on the chimney of the house drove me mad with the beak clattering. Described once as a admixture of Magpie and Jackhammer. You cannot concentrate on typing an Magnum Opus with clatter clatter clatter 7 foot above your open windows. An inspiration comes sidling in to your wine sozzled brain, you start to type, then... Tho' I may be doing the Storks an injustice, the Weingut Triebaumer Blaufränkisch could have been the real problem.

reninfrance · #16 (**permalink**) 27-06-2009, 05:55 PM

Did you ever get it finished?
Can't imagine trying to do anything in Austria but wandering, exploring, tasting the local food and wine, particularly the south east off the beaten tracks.
Speaking of the storks--when I plodded into the field last week, hopeing to replace my old grainy photos, the farmer was convinced I was wanting a 'veg box' he couldn't believe anyone could be interested in such 'bad birds' who seem to constantly attack any other bird around.
Luckily, they are 10kms away so I don't suffer from the clattering or the agression.

paul m · #17 (**permalink**) 28-06-2009, 05:37 PM

Did he ever finish the Weingut or the magnum opus? I hope both!

Interesting what you say about storks (cranes, other big birds) - they can clearly be regarded as a pest by farmers or by birdy people who like little songbirds in their gardens. We have the same problem with people wanting to exterminate all raptors, corvids and other birds they haven't thought of yet but might disturb their garden birds ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by reninfrance

Did you ever get it finished?
Can't imagine trying to do anything in Austria but wandering, exploring, tasting the local food and wine, particularly the south east off the beaten tracks.
Speaking of the storks--when I plodded into the field last week, hopeing to replace my old grainy photos, the farmer was convinced I was wanting a 'veg box' he couldn't believe anyone could be interested in such 'bad birds' who seem to constantly attack any other bird around.
Luckily, they are 10kms away so I don't suffer from the clattering or the agression.

reninfrance · #18 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 07:59 PM

yesterday;

reninfrance · #19 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 08:00 PM

this morning;

reninfrance · #20 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 08:02 PM

a little later;

reninfrance · #21 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 08:09 PM

and gone;

Thanks to goosey for the suggestion -it was incredible to see it fly free today.

goosey · #22 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 10:53 PM

Brilliant Ren, its so good it worked out for you and you got to see the development to the end - great images to document it too.
What stunning looking butterflies, so fresh and perfect.

reninfrance · #23 (**permalink**) 05-07-2009, 11:05 PM

I missed a lot by not being aware of the time scale of development and the signs to look for.
If I get the chance I will do it again next year.
thanks again,
ren

tcvarlh · #24 (**permalink**) 07-07-2009, 12:50 AM

The Triebaumer Blaufränkisch came to an end, the Magnum Opus was published, my stint in Freistadt-Rust ran it's course. I moved into the Alps and decided Bier was healthier. There I had Ibex, Ravens and Choughs to keep me awake. Tasting the local food is fine until you move back here, then the memory becomes bitter-sweet.

h

reninfrance · #25 (**permalink**) 05-09-2009, 10:56 PM

Look what is eating my fennel plants

I have not been able to spend time quietly in the garden for the past two months due to an influx of young visitors and my husband's sudden desire to knock the utility wall down and create a much larger kitchen

Today, after searching for the fridge in it's fifth home this week, and failing to find the 'Chinese five spice' in the boxes in the bureau, I escaped outside to find two scorpion flies enjoying my grand-daughter's rotting apple core,(no camera), a holly blue butterfly-not seen many this year-(camera battery flat)and three swallowtail caterpillars who kindly waited for me to get my act together.

Ain't life beautiful!!!