More emerging damselflies

[goosey]

I spotted these yesterday in the same place as I saw the Large red damselflies emerge (20-04-2009), also on the flag irises.
Freshly emerged Damselfly.

I got to these slightly earlier in their emerging stage as some were actually just coming out of their exuviae.

I think they are one of the "blue's" but don't know which, help with an ID would be appreciated .

[Pudding4brains]

Hi Goosey,

Can't help with the ID, but just wanted to let you know I'm envious - never witnessed such a scene myself (yet) - so cheers for that!

As for the chocolate, I now finally understand why chocolate supposedly makes wimmin happy: The perfect excuse to go out and buy new clothes

[RoyW]

Hi Goosey,

I'm afraid that there isn't really enough detail in the photos you've posted for a positive ID - I've tried enlarging the images but they lose too much definition.

There are three possible species that I would think are likely to be breeding in a Dutch garden pond; Common Blue Damselfly Enallagama cyathigerum, Azure Damselfly Coenagrion puella, and Blue-tailed Damselfly Ischnura elegans.
The larvae/ exuviae of all three are very similar, with no distinctive markings on the caudal lamellae (like Large Red Damselfly), and can't really be seperated from these images. If I was forced to pick one I would probably go for Blue-tailed but I wouldn't want to place money on it!

Google 'Chris Brooks photography' to find some good images of some British species + larvae. I've no idea who he is but on first impressions his website doesn't look too bad!


Roy.

[goosey]

Originally Posted by Pudding4brains

Hi Goosey,

Can't help with the ID, but just wanted to let you know I'm envious - never witnessed such a scene myself (yet) - so cheers for that!

As for the chocolate, I now finally understand why chocolate supposedly makes wimmin happy: The perfect excuse to go out and buy new clothes

Not quite Arp - what makes women happy is chocolate, new clothes and being thinner and a bit more chocolate .

Hope you get to see some emerging damsels and dragoflies soon.

Originally Posted by RoyW

Hi Goosey,

I'm afraid that there isn't really enough detail in the photos you've posted for a positive ID - I've tried enlarging the images but they lose too much definition.

There are three possible species that I would think are likely to be breeding in a Dutch garden pond; Common Blue Damselfly Enallagama cyathigerum, Azure Damselfly Coenagrion puella, and Blue-tailed Damselfly Ischnura elegans.
The larvae/ exuviae of all three are very similar, with no distinctive markings on the caudal lamellae (like Large Red Damselfly), and can't really be seperated from these images. If I was forced to pick one I would probably go for Blue-tailed but I wouldn't want to place money on it!

Google 'Chris Brooks photography' to find some good images of some British species + larvae. I've no idea who he is but on first impressions his website doesn't look too bad!


Roy.

Thank you Roy for looking - shame we won't know for sure.
What would have been a key area to have got a shot of so I know in future?
The piccies, alas, were not taken in my garden but in the wild in a National Park close to where I live.

You are quite right about Chris Brooks - excellent dragonfly and damselfly images in his galleries!

Shirley

[H Dogg]

The damsel in the first photo is different to the species in the two other photos which are the same.

[goosey]

Originally Posted by H Dogg

The damsel in the first photo is different to the species in the two other photos which are the same.

That's clever H - how can you tell?

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by goosey

What would have been a key area to have got a shot of so I know in future?
The piccies, alas, were not taken in my garden but in the wild in a National Park close to where I live.

The key feature for identification of most damselfly larvae is the caudal lamellae (the gills at the rear end). The problem with using these to identify exuviae is that they often stick together and can become folded over - for the best chance of identification they need to be seperated and looked at under magnification (there are some example photos on the website I mentioned). There are some other features that can be useful for some species but these are less important.

I'm not sure why I thought they were taken in a garden pond (although that's where most people notice emerging damselflies!). As they were taken in a National Park there may be other species that need to be taken into account as well (depending on the habitat!) so we're moving further away from an ID!.

Originally Posted by H Dogg

The damsel in the first photo is different to the species in the two other photos which are the same.

It's certainly a different individual (one which has somehow lost its caudal lamellae, and has started to regrow them). From these images I'm not convinced that it is a different species though - although that is possible.


Roy.

[H Dogg]

Originally Posted by RoyW

It's certainly a different individual (one which has somehow lost its caudal lamellae, and has started to regrow them). From these images I'm not convinced that it is a different species though - although that is possible.


Roy.

The size of the lamella looks different between them, in the first photo its small compared to the larger darker lamellae on the other two. For example Enallagma has much smaller lamellae than Coenagrion pulchellum. The size and shape is distinctive and is more likely due to species rather than regrowth. IMO.

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by H Dogg

The size of the lamella looks different between them, in the first photo its small compared to the larger darker lamellae on the other two. For example Enallagma has much smaller lamellae than Coenagrion pulchellum. The size and shape is distinctive and is more likely due to species rather than regrowth. IMO.

The size and shape of the caudal lamallae is often used in keys for specific identification of damselfly larvae/ exuviae, however IMO the lamellae shown in this photo are too small.
If we assume that the exuviae is a typical size for similar damselflies of 20-24mm long (front of head to tip of lamellae), then the lamellae, are only 2.3-2.6mm. This length would perhaps be suitable for smaller larvae, like Coenagrion mercuriale (not found in the Netherlands), but for other species, including Enallagma cyathigerum a length of at least 5 mm is expected.
I supose that it is possible that some sort of foreshortening effect has occurred due to the angle of the photo, but in this example I really don't think that the size of the lamellae can be used. The fact that there doesn't appear to be any pigment on the 'shorter' lamellae may indicate that it is actually a different species but if new lamellae are growing perhaps this could also be an explaination?

Roy.

[goosey]

Thanks H Dogg and Roy on your thoughts so far, all very interesting!
I went back yesterday to the same place as I saw the emrging damselflies on Saturday. There were hundreds of damselflies around including Large reds. Here are some I saw, I don't know if it helps at all with the emerging images, but I would like ID's for these please.

1. 2. 3.

[RoyW]

Hi Goosey,

The damselflies are;
1. Immature male Enallagma cythigerum (Common Blue Damselfly/ Watersnuffel).
2. Female Coenagrion puella (Azure Damselfly/ Azuurwaterjuffer).
3. Immature male Coenagrion puella.

Details on the thorax + the second and eight/ninth sections of the abdomen are the features to look at to identify these species (some other female Coenagrion species are very similar though, and may require the shape of the pronotum to be looked at for identification).

Roy.

[H Dogg]

1. Male Enallagma cythigerum
2. Female Coenagrion puella
3. im. Male Coenagrion puella

Possibly the three you saw emerging , unlikely but i still feel the lamallae look fine on the nymphs.

[H Dogg]

Snap beat me to it.

[goosey]

Originally Posted by RoyW

Hi Goosey,

The damselflies are;
1. Immature male Enallagma cythigerum (Common Blue Damselfly/ Watersnuffel).
2. Female Coenagrion puella (Azure Damselfly/ Azuurwaterjuffer).
3. Immature male Coenagrion puella.

Details on the thorax + the second and eight/ninth sections of the abdomen are the features to look at to identify these species (some other female Coenagrion species are very similar though, and may require the shape of the pronotum to be looked at for identification).

Roy.

Originally Posted by H Dogg

1. Male Enallagma cythigerum
2. Female Coenagrion puella
3. im. Male Coenagrion puella

Possibly the three you saw emerging , unlikely but i still feel the lamallae look fine on the nymphs.

Good work chaps - its good to have a consensus of opinion .
Thanks!

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by goosey

Good work chaps - its good to have a consensus of opinion .
Thanks!

Can't disagree on everything!