some ID's please! - Worldwide Wildlife and Environment Forums

frostfire · #1 (**permalink**) 20-07-2008, 09:52 AM

Saw all these last week in Germany and haven't been able to id them yet though! Hope some one can help! Thanks, ~*~Frostfire~*~

and this grasshopper:

paul m · #2 (**permalink**) 20-07-2008, 02:36 PM

The longhorn beetle (Cerambycidae) is one of the Lepturinae, I think. There are a lot of fairly similar ones most of which used to be in the genus Lepturinus but have now been separated into several groups.

Need more time to think about this.
There's a good site at:
Lepturinae

frostfire · #3 (**permalink**) 20-07-2008, 03:18 PM

Hi Paul, thanks for the thoughts! Arp has said in the gallery that he thought that it might be a Stenurella melanura, if that is any help? I'll have a look at the link and let you know if I come up with any possibilities before you or Arp do, (don't count on it though

).
~*~Frostfire~*~

paul m · #4 (**permalink**) 20-07-2008, 03:23 PM

Well done Arp that's good: Stenurella melanura even on the same flower head as the picture. There don't seem to be any similar, close relations in Europe ....

Incidentally it is one of the recently renamed species - formerly Strangalia melanura.

frostfire · #5 (**permalink**) 20-07-2008, 03:36 PM

Thanks Arp and Paul! Just out of interest, why did they decide to rename and regroup them?

frostfire · #6 (**permalink**) 30-07-2008, 08:49 AM

Here's another picture I'd taken in Germany, hope someone knows what it is and that the bug on the left is clear enough for an ID.

~*~Frostfire~*~

paul m · #7 (**permalink**) 30-07-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostfire

Thanks Arp and Paul! Just out of interest, why did they decide to rename and regroup them?

There are two things there.

Nomenclature: Re-namings occur when it is dicovered that an organism was given a different name before the commonly used name; when an organism has been found to have been given two or more names; when there has been a misspelling and several other reasons.
NOMENCLATURE - CONTINUED explains a fairly complex system as simply as is possible - and asks you some questions at the end!

Systematics: the aim is that the closest related species should be in the same genus; the closest related genera in the same family &c.. So occasionally taxonomists decide that two separate genera are really the same one (an then lump the two genera into one) or decide that two members of a genus are not closely related and split the genera.

Sometimes these changes are unavoidable but sometimes it seems that some experts are excessively keen on splitting. It's interesting to compare the numbers of beetle species per genus with the number of butterflies. In Europe we have some beetle genera with forty, fifty or more species whereas almost every butterfly species has its own genus only ..... are butterflies more evolutionary unstable than beetles?

Pudding4brains · #8 (**permalink**) 30-07-2008, 12:16 PM

Hi Frostfire,

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostfire

... hope someone knows what it is and that the bug on the left is clear enough for an ID.

Personally, I wouldn't dare stick a name on it other than "Ichneumonid Wasp", but maybe have a look here on WAB.

Arp

frostfire · #9 (**permalink**) 30-07-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding4brains

Hi Frostfire,
Personally, I wouldn't dare stick a name on it other than "Ichneumonid Wasp", but maybe have a look here on WAB.

Arp

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction with the Ichneumonid. I've been looking though some books and think that it might be a Amblyteles armatorius. Let me know if anybody (dis)agrees!

~*~Frostfire~*~

frostfire · #10 (**permalink**) 30-07-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul m

NOMENCLATURE - CONTINUED explains a fairly complex system as simply as is possible - and asks you some questions at the end!

Just read the link and it was very clear and interesting, thanks!

Pudding4brains · #11 (**permalink**) 31-07-2008, 09:09 AM

Hi Frostfire,

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostfire

I've been looking though some books and think that it might be a Amblyteles armatorius.

Well, in general, the problem with "looking at books" is that hardly anybody has the sort of books that show all Ichneumonid wasps. It's a rather huge group and it seems (I do not 'know' these things - just copying what I read elsewhere) that for mostly any species displayed in mainstream insect books or even specialized 'picture books' there are a handful of (less frequent?) lookalikes, sometimes even from different genuses or families.

Of course, what exactly qualifies as "lookalike" is in the eye of the beholder, but if the beholder is a generalist looking at mainstream fieldguides chances are the number of possible lookalikes (not displayed) will only increase. Specialist of the group are scarce and those that are rumoured to exist seem to have better things to do with their time than hang around on internet forums (some do however seem to be friendly toward people sending in specimen for ID

)

I have great respect for people such as Dogghound who have at least had the ambition to look at the group in some detail and 'dare' to come up with names, but if 'any old forumuser' comes up with names in the same way you did I think it's always sensible to inquire how they got the name to try and judge how reliable it might be.

For me the problem is that, obviously, there are also some species that can be ID-ed reliably from photo - I just don't have the faintest idea which

My 2 cents, Arp

frostfire · #12 (**permalink**) 02-08-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding4brains

Hi Frostfire,

I have great respect for people such as Dogghound who have at least had the ambition to look at the group in some detail and 'dare' to come up with names, but if 'any old forumuser' comes up with names in the same way you did I think it's always sensible to inquire how they got the name to try and judge how reliable it might be.

For me the problem is that, obviously, there are also some species that can be ID-ed reliably from photo - I just don't have the faintest idea which

Thanks for that, I'll just name it a Ichneumon wasp in the gallery to avoid any confussion!

paul m · #13 (**permalink**) 02-08-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding4brains

.............Specialist of the group are scarce and those that are rumoured to exist seem to have better things to do with their time than hang around on internet forums (some do however seem to be friendly toward people sending in specimen for ID

)
......... Arp

Arp has summed the difficulties of not only ichneumons but most Hymenoptera other than the larger bees, wasps and ants.

Ichneumons, actually are a relatively easy group compared to the parasitoid wasps: chalcids, braconids &c.. I do a bit of work on these and do have experts who kindly identify things for me - I'm not going to mention names for their sakes!

The parasitoid that I'm most interested in is Aprostocetus neglectus - there are getting on for 700 species of this genus of the Eulophidae family (>4000 species) and they are all about 1-2mm long ... not the sort of thing that is even thinkable on a photograph unless you are a very good photographer and manage to display critical features.

.... of course, the decisive criterion for many insects is the genitalia - which don't often appear on photogarphs of a whole insect!

But I'm not trying to put you off. Go as far as you can - to Family or genus and you will have a better understanding of insect classification!

paul m · #14 (**permalink**) 17-09-2008, 02:11 PM

This is a good example (nothing to do with wasps) of why some names have been abolished - Victorians were far too keen to name new species ......

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Will the real dinosaurs stand up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul m

There are two things there.
.....................
Systematics: the aim is that the closest related species should be in the same genus; the closest related genera in the same family &c.. So occasionally taxonomists decide that two separate genera are really the same one (an then lump the two genera into one) or decide that two members of a genus are not closely related and split the genera.

...........

H Dogg · #15 (**permalink**) 17-09-2008, 05:40 PM

Both in the Ichneumonid sub-family Ichneumoninae, the black one looks good for Trogus lapidator.

Matra Man · #16 (**permalink**) 18-09-2008, 08:15 PM

Hi there Frostfire !

I'm not getting involved with pic 2 (the grasshopper), or the one a little further down the page, but I think that pic 3 is a Dark Bush-cricket Pholidoptera griseoaptera.

A good way to distinguish between a grasshopper and a cricket is the length of the antennae : bush-crickets have e-nor-mous-ly long ants.

Pic 3 would have been 'nicer' (no criticism intended) if it had been slightly from the side as, the DBC has a faint white line along the rear edge of the side plates of the pronotum. In your pic, I think it is just discernable. Looking at the rear end of the insect, it looks to be a male as no long ovipositor is visible.

Hope that helps, Colin.

frostfire · #17 (**permalink**) 19-09-2008, 03:55 PM

Thanks for the info and the Id. Especially the comment on what would make it a 'better' picture, I'd never have thought of that otherwise and it's a good tip for the future when photographing any bush-crickets!

~*~Frostfire~*~

Pudding4brains · #18 (**permalink**) 19-09-2008, 04:33 PM

Hi Frosty,

Could you repair your 1st post? One image isn't showing, probably because it was moved to another category in the gallery, so you may need to update the code for the thumbnail ...

Thanks!
Arp

frostfire · #19 (**permalink**) 20-09-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding4brains

Hi Frosty,

Could you repair your 1st post? One image isn't showing, probably because it was moved to another category in the gallery, so you may need to update the code for the thumbnail ...

Thanks!
Arp

That's odd... when I clicked on it it did go to the right image, but turned out that the url was missing a ']'. Well, it is sorted now, thanks for mentioning it!
~*~Frostfire~*~