Bee and a hoverfly for ID please

[goosey]

Any ideas what types this bee and hoverfly which were in the garden are please? There seem to be so many I don't know where to start, are there any pointers in identifying them? Thanks.

[paul m]

I see no bee - both organisms have two wings only; both are hoverflies (Syrphidae) - the second (bee-like) one is, I think, one of the droneflies Eristalis spp - [looks very much like a drone bee but only has two wings].

I won't go any further (I smell burning) and I'm sure you'll get more knowledgable advise on Dutch hoverflies than I can give ....

Originally Posted by goosey

Any ideas what types this bee and hoverfly which were in the garden are please? There seem to be so many I don't know where to start, are there any pointers in identifying them? Thanks.

[Pudding4brains]

Hi Goosey,

Well, I'm afraid I'm pretty much with Paul all the way on these - that is including the scorching sensation as soon as I start to talk about Diptera

However, a good dutch ref for syrphids is the site by Han Endt (Eristalis, Dasysyrphus).

Also, maybe try having a look at Wolfgang Rutkies' syrphidae.de (or directly to the Eristalis or Dasysyrphus pages) - has a good intro too.

Both sites are quite reliable to render correct ID's (where many other internet sources are a tad "iffy"), but also both sites do not have images of all species listed for NL. For a list of dutch syrphids maybe check nederlandsesoorten.nl: Syrphidae / Eristalis / Dasysyrphus or faunaeur.org: Syrphidae / Eristalis / Dasysyrphus

Just to participate in a wild guessing frenzy: My 2ct would be on a female Dasysyrphus venustus and an Eristalis tenax (female too???) - but please note that I own a grand total well over 10 Euros (maybe even 11), so the 2ct don't amount to much

Hope it helps you in your own searching efforts though.
Cheers! Arp

[goosey]

Well I'll be ...........! I was sure that was a bee - oh well we live and learn .

Thanks Paul and Arp, and for the links they look excellent.
I have an awful feeling I will have to rename some of the bees in the gallery on my website now , I thought I was safe by just saying "Bee".

[goosey]

This beauty was in the garden this afternoon, it had a lovely bronze colour body.
I have looked at the site by Han Endt and can't find this as a hoverfly. At first I suspected it to be a Hoverfly - Ferdinandea cuprea, but realised it only had 4 broze stripes where mine has 8. Also the Ferdinandea cuprea is found in woodland areas.

Any ideas please, sorry picture 2 with the most detail isn't so sharp.

[paul m]

... but also, I think, has four wings ... not a dipteran - fly - also the antennae are not fly-like ... more hymenopteran .....

[Pudding4brains]

From the antennae I'm guessing (!) a Cimbex of some sort - if so, a pretty large animal I suppose? (and fantasic find! )

Cheers! Arp

D@ng! Should have been more prudent and said "Cimbicidae" as opposed to Cimbex ... I'll put my entire 2ct down on Abia lonicerae (this is not an ID - just me loosing 2ct of my capital!!)

Here's some images (not all in the family by a long shot, but hey):
Abia lonicerae
Abia sericea
Cimbex femoratus
Cimbex fagi
Cimbex luteus

Some other nice images are linked from this page.

[mtngoat]

Hiya Pudding, it seems that the Abia Lonicerae matches the one that goosey put up. (artist eyes and all that gander ) The head, thorax, and ends are the same. As are the antennae, golden fuzz, and also the wings. Yep, I'm pretty sure that's it!

[goosey]

Originally Posted by mtngoat

Hiya Pudding, it seems that the Abia Lonicerae matches the one that goosey put up. (artist eyes and all that gander ) The head, thorax, and ends are the same. As are the antennae, golden fuzz, and also the wings. Yep, I'm pretty sure that's it!

Yes! I think Arp and mtngoat are right with Abia Lonicerae and just as a pointer it was on the plant next to the Lonicera Belgica.
I didn't think it was a sawfly, it is very different to the sawflies I see in the garden usually.
Thank you .

[Pudding4brains]

Hi All,

Yes, Cimbicidae are quite different from the "usual" sawflies - usually quite impressive big critters (with nice big "caterpillar" larvae too ), most easily recognized by the heavy club-like antennae I think. Hardly ever see one though

It seems most of the Abia are quite similar, with only subtle differences to tell them apart (antennae colouring?) and not always 100% reliable at that. Problem: It's not easy to find clear 100% certain images of all species, and as long as I have only seen a few of them it remains unclear I think. That said, the host plant might indeed be a good indication