More ID's please

[goosey]

The prolonged and heavy rain of this week has worked wonders and the fungi is out in large amounts at last.

1,2 and 3 were found together along with Clitocybe, puffballs and laccaria Sp, on mossy grass not very far from pines.

1. Was about 4-5cm tall had a pinkish areas to the wooly cap. The stipe wasn't yet visible.

1.


2. Was 7cm Tall and the base of the cap measured 4cm.

2.


3. A Macrolepiota? Smooth stipe with a loose ring, the cap was 13cm across.

3.


4. I am not sure if this is one of the Agaricus Sp . Solitary under oak, about 8cm tall. I got distracted and had to leave before I took more photo's or details.

4.


5. Was found in a birch tree. The wooly cap was about 8cm across, shagy stipe.

5.

[goosey]

I have been giving these a little more thought.

Do you think that it possible that No.2 is just an immature No.3?

And is No.5 too shaggy/wooly to be a Wrinkled Peach - Rhodotus palmatus?

[NickCantle]

Just had a quick look on my phone at these Shirley. Here are my thoughts;

1. Chlorophyllum of some description
2. I think is probably Tricholoma
3. I'd say you're correct with Macrolepiota- how tall was it? Just seen 13cm across so about 10-11cm tall? M. mastoidea?
4. Definitely Agaricus with that 'cogwheel' dropping like a skirt
5. I'm keeping quiet about this, I'm undecided but it's certainly not R. palmatus

Nick

[goosey]

Originally Posted by NickCantle

Just had a quick look on my phone at these Shirley. Here are my thoughts;

1. Chlorophyllum of some description
2. I think is probably Tricholoma
3. I'd say you're correct with Macrolepiota- how tall was it? Just seen 13cm across so about 10-11cm tall? M. mastoidea?
4. Definitely Agaricus with that 'cogwheel' dropping like a skirt
5. I'm keeping quiet about this, I'm undecided but it's certainly not R. palmatus

Nick

Thank's for your thoughts.

1. I have been looking at Chlorophyllum Sp but I couldn't note any with a wooly cap?

2. I see that some of the Tricholoma do emerge with a Conical cap so you could be right there. I still half think it could be a young Macrolepiota and now you have said M. mastoidea any chance? Or shall we stick with Tricholoma?

3. I have just checked my notes and I don't know why I didn't add the height seeing as I actually had it . height 11cm, so thay fits in nicely for M. mastoidea

4. I will put down as an Agaricus Sp. I was thinking that myself so thanks for the confirmation.

5. If you dont know - how am I expected to - Keep thinking!

[goosey]

Originally Posted by goosey

5. Was found in a birch tree. The wooly cap was about 8cm across, shagy stipe.

5.

I have been looking for this and think I have come up with something Pholiota populnea? (But I have a sneaking suspicion that this is the Dutch Latin word and may be something different Latin in non Dutch references, I have come foul of this before.) Thoughts please .

[ericrovve]

Looks a perfectly legit name, from a French POV, anyway, but it seems to favour poplar trees.

[Cybershot]

You might well be on the right tracks Shirley but a bit more research re-substrate necessary methinks:

"Pholiota populnea (Pers.) Kuyper & Tjall.-Beuk., Persoonia 13(1): 81 (1986)

Pholiota heteroclita sensu Cooke [Ill. Brit. Fung. 389 (366) Vol. 3 (1885)]
Agaricus populneus Pers., Mycol. eur. (Erlanga) 3: 171 (1828)
Agaricus destruens Brond., Rec. Pl. Crypt. Agenais: pl. 6 (1829)
Agaricus comosus Fr., Epicr. syst. mycol. (Uppsala): 165 (1838)
Pholiota comosa (Fr.) Quél., Mém. Soc. Émul. Montbéliard Sér. 2 5: 125 (1872)
Pholiota destruens (Brond.) Gillet, Hyménomycètes (Alençon): 442 (1876)
Hemipholiota populnea (Pers.) Bon, Doc. Mycol. 17(no. 65): 52 (1986)


Habitat: On dead wood of Populus (and rarely Salix) spp., usually growing from the cut faces of large felled trunks or sawn logs.


Notes: This is a large and distinctive species, unlikely to be overlooked and thus probably genuinely rare."

Ref: Checklist of the British & Irish Basidiomycota

and FOS has the following:

"Habitat: Usually gregarious, more rarely solitary, on fallen dead wood or on damaged trees of Populus Acc(ording to the) lit(erature) more rarely also on hardwoods. Fall. Widespread. Europe

Remarks: This species is easily recognized macroscopically. Its typical characteristics are occurence on living or dead poplar wood, robust and often clustered frbs, conspicuously woolly-squamous surface of pileus and stipe, pale brown or light ocherish colours and brown lamellae"

The photo in FOS looks a very good match.

David

[goosey]

Originally Posted by ericrovve

Looks a perfectly legit name, from a French POV, anyway, but it seems to favour poplar trees.

I did have my reservation about the name refering to Poplar.
Pholiota populnea wasn't in any of my books and I found it in Dutch pictorial reference so was a bit concerned about the scientific name being pertinent- so thanks for that confirmation.

Originally Posted by Cybershot

You might well be on the right tracks Shirley but a bit more research re-substrate necessary methinks:

"Pholiota populnea (Pers.) Kuyper & Tjall.-Beuk., Persoonia 13(1): 81 (1986)

Habitat: On dead wood of Populus (and rarely Salix) spp., usually growing from the cut faces of large felled trunks or sawn logs.


Notes: This is a large and distinctive species, unlikely to be overlooked and thus probably genuinely rare."

Ref: Checklist of the British & Irish Basidiomycota

and FOS has the following:

"Habitat: Usually gregarious, more rarely solitary, on fallen dead wood or on damaged trees of Populus Acc(ording to the) lit(erature) more rarely also on hardwoods. Fall. Widespread. Europe

Remarks: This species is easily recognized macroscopically. Its typical characteristics are occurence on living or dead poplar wood, robust and often clustered frbs, conspicuously woolly-squamous surface of pileus and stipe, pale brown or light ocherish colours and brown lamellae"

The photo in FOS looks a very good match.

Good work David!

"Pholiota populnea (Pers.) Kuyper & Tjall.-Beuk., Persoonia 13(1): 81 (1986)
I believe the reference above is Dutch with regards to the names, I wonder if Beuk is where it was found or a continuation of names? If it is where it was found - Beuk means beech!
The tree I saw this on was certainly not beech, of that I am 100%, I expected the tree I found it in to be birch as all the others that line this stretch of water are Birch and I found Amanita muscaria here, but saying that I can't say with 100% concviction "This was Birch" I will have to go back and get photo's of the tree.

Mine wasn't a large species, and easily missed tucked in the space between the trunk and lower branch of the tree, not on a cut face of a felled tree. I did check it today (before I saw the above post or I would have got the image of the ree itself), there was no change in it.
I have left it uncropped so less detail but more image of the tree.



So there still seem some doubtful comparisons but I like the thought of my picture matching one somewhere else in officialdom.
Sorry I am about to show my complete ignorance - but what is FOS, so I can check out the image. I am sure I have come across it at sometime but can't recall where or when.

[Cybershot]

FOS = Fungi of Switzerland and in this case it's Vol 4; p340; Sp No. 437.

[bulbosa]

Just for you Shirley



Mal

[goosey]

Originally Posted by Cybershot

FOS = Fungi of Switzerland and in this case it's Vol 4; p340; Sp No. 437.

Oh -never heard of that, I must have confused it with something else .
Next time you quote FOS I will know exactly what you mean though!

Originally Posted by bulbosa

Just for you Shirley



Mal

Thanks Mal - very kind of you, you know how to spoil a girl (and you didn't even mention it having pigtails )

Now folks down to buisness!
Do you think that it is safe to call this Pholiota populnea or are there too many mitigating factors here to do so?

[Cybershot]

Originally Posted by goosey

Oh -never heard of that, I must have confused it with something else .
Next time you quote FOS I will know exactly what you mean though!


Thanks Mal - very kind of you, you know how to spoil a girl (and you didn't even mention it having pigtails )

Now folks down to buisness!
Do you think that it is safe to call this Pholiota populnea or are there too many mitigating factors here to do so?

Well done and touché Mal

Unless that tree turns out to be Salix I would hold your horses Shirley but it would be great if you could get it verified. A dried specimen forwarded to Mal for microscopy might help

[Cybershot]

The plot thickens: Look what I found under Hemipholiota populnea

http://www.mycokey.org/result_textse...=refresh&19156

(after linking the enlarged image facility seems faulty, at least in my browser, but even so the thumbnails are clear enough))

[goosey]

Originally Posted by Cybershot

The plot thickens: Look what I found under Hemipholiota populnea

MycoKey fungus identifier

(after linking the enlarged image facility seems faulty, at least in my browser, but even so the thumbnails are clear enough))

Curiouser and curiouser, in the words of Alice!

What a confusing site but I got there in the end after clicking everything in sight . (BTW, the enlarged image opened for me, but smaller than the original picture )Who cares though - I think you you are onto something!

1. Does this mean it is one of those names that has been changed at sometime? If so, is Pholiota populnea or Hemipholiota populnea the current name?

2. OR, are they both seperate species and both found on Poplar? On the good side it say's of Hemipholiota populnea On/with on deciduous trees, this fact could have materialised after the fungus was named?

My brain is whirling - I shall think some more!

[Cybershot]

It's not helping that the Mycokey link appears to become scrambled by script blockers on subsequent openings whichever browser I use (IE or Firefox....it seems I've awakened my IT gremlins again ) and I completely lost the images

Try this for a better starting point, and search 'H' for Hemipholiota populnea and the subsequent suggested link for larger images and more information:

MycoKey genus list

However, it's hard enough to research on basic ID matters without all this change in the latest taxonomic thinking and pinning down what is current seems to get more and more difficult by the day. I am, for the moment, sticking to Pholiota populnea as the current name and treating the rest, as listed in the above British Checklist, as synonyms. [Not sure about the implications or acceptance of the analysis by Moncalvo & al. (2002)]. I think it's safe enough to say the references, regardless of name, are all about the same species Shirley, but there is definite confusion about it's habitat and rarity (For what it's worth*, annotated a Red Data List species in the UK).

Don't you just love trying to unravel these guessing games?

David

* http://www.abfg.org/news.php

[goosey]

Originally Posted by Cybershot

However, it's hard enough to research on basic ID matters without all this change in the latest taxonomic thinking and pinning down what is current seems to get more and more difficult by the day. I am, for the moment, sticking to Pholiota populnea as the current name and treating the rest, as listed in the above British Checklist, as synonyms. [Not sure about the implications or acceptance of the analysis by Moncalvo & al. (2002)]. I think it's safe enough to say the references, regardless of name, are all about the same species Shirley, but there is definite confusion about it's habitat and rarity (For what it's worth*, annotated a Red Data List species in the UK).

Don't you just love trying to unravel these guessing games?

David

* Association of British Fungus Groups

Sorry David I have only just seen your edit - what a farce! I cant understand why mycologists would want to prevent these records being completed.

[goosey]

I have been back today to look at our mystery ...... populnea, it hasn't changed colour, size or shape.
Now for the apology sorry! After all that about being sure it was on birch, it isn't at all - it is Willow (Salix). The willow is actually growing out of the water but I don't know if it is dead or alive, there are some willows growing in the water which are alive and others which are dead, but without foliage on the trees I can't tell at the mo'.

[Cybershot]

Originally Posted by goosey

I have been back today to look at our mystery ...... populnea, it hasn't changed colour, size or shape.
Now for the apology sorry! After all that about being sure it was on birch, it isn't at all - it is Willow (Salix). The willow is actually growing out of the water but I don't know if it is dead or alive, there are some willows growing in the water which are alive and others which are dead, but without foliage on the trees I can't tell at the mo'.

Great news, and it sounds very likely you've found yourself a rare occurrence of an extremely interesting species in that case - well done

(also found more info under the synonym Pholiota destruens
Rogers Mushrooms - Pholiota destruens Mushroom
but dropped from latest edition of the book)

[goosey]

Originally Posted by Cybershot

Great news, and it sounds very likely you've found yourself a rare occurrence of an extremely interesting species in that case - well done

(also found more info under the synonym Pholiota destruens
Rogers Mushrooms - Pholiota destruens Mushroom
but dropped from latest edition of the book)

Excellent, how exciting! -Thanks for all your help .

[bulbosa]

They are rare in the UK they are probably as common as muck in the Netherlands

Mal